78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - Druckversion

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+--- Thema: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? (/showthread.php?tid=1870)

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - oleness - 20.08.2007

We got the whole truck for 5000NOK, or about 625 euro. Almost exactly 1/10 of the price of a new 314 72hp engine for the trac here in norway...

But the turbo charger is leaking a bit oil just after you stop the engine (when it has stopped spinning). So the trac has a thick blue smoke right when it has been cold started. This stops almost immediatly when the turbo gets spinning. When it has warmed up there is only a small black puff of smoke when the throttle is floored...

Where did you get the turbo charger from? Used?

We also had to rebuild the exhaust, but I will post a video on youtube as soon as we get the trac back!

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - Helmut-Schmitz - 20.08.2007

Hi Ole,
the fuelpump unit consists two devices, the pump himself and the governor (deutsch: Regler)
At cars and trucks engins, the governor only controls idle and top-rpm. The most used type ist called RQ-Regler, it means governor with crossspring. To choosen an engine-speed between idle and top-rpm, you have to do it by yourself if engine loads changes. An other type ist calles RS-Regler ( it means Schwenkfeder= pivot spring.)
A governor which controls enginespeed at every rpm you have choosen is called Verstellregler, it maybe will be tranlated shift governor, but I dont`n know the correct name.
This type keeps engine rpm constant, during load will change.
These governors are possible as a RQV or as a RSV-Regler. Becaus RSV-governor is working more exact it`s used in Unimog and MB-trac for working with pto. Trucks which have a hydraulic pump as an tipper, they sometimes have a RQV-governor, but the margin of fluctuation is bigger.

Your fuel pump units has two type plates, one for the pump unit on side ( it starts with PES4...) and one for governor unit at the end ( it`s starting with R..../...)
So have a look, whats blted at your engine.
Much Regards Helmut

@ Greil
der Turbo belastet die Kolben wesentlich stärker, weshalb eine Kolbenbodenkühlung dringend angeraten ist. Die Kolben verformen sich ansonsten assymetrisch, was einen höheren Verschleiß mit sich bringt. Um die Wärme abzuführen muß das Öl gekühlt werden.
Jetzt werden wieder alle schreien, ich habe einfach einen Turbo nachgerüstet und meiner läuft auch ohne Kolbenbodenkühlung. Ja, das glaube ich, sagt mir später nur wiel lange

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - oleness - 20.08.2007

Thank you very much for explaining that!

I will have a look on the engine when we get it back tomorrow.

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - greil - 21.08.2007

Servus zusammen,

@Ole: Did I understand your message in the right way, you have an OM 364A?

I buyed the new turbo charger directly by KKK, the company which builds the charger.

And the "normal" OM 364 I will get from a 709D.


@Helmut: Danke dir mal wieder für die nützlichen Auskünfte! Bei mir erledigt sich die Thematik mit dem Regler sowieso, da ich außer der Winde keine Zapfwellentätigkeit habe. Und da darf er ruhig mal ein bisschen runter gehen von der Drehzahl und wenns wirklich is geb ich ihm per Ferngas n bisschen Stoff. Das ist aber bestimmt das allerkleinste Problem.
Deine These zur Kolbenbodenkühlung heißt für mich im Umkehrschluss: Jeder Motor mit Turbo ab Werk (z. B. 1300er) hat eine Kolbenbodenkühlung? Oder nicht?

Was war bei 1000er oder 1100er mit Sonderbestellung, die ab Werk mit Turbomotor kamen???

Beim 1000er haben wir den Turbo auch schon seit Anfang drauf, nach 6000 BH kein Tropfen Ölverbrauch etc....



Grüße Michl

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - oleness - 21.08.2007

Yes, the engine from the 711D is a OM 364A. The sign on the engine is gone, but since it has a turbo charger originally, I guess that is the right model name.

How much did you pay for the turbo charger?

Do you have the model number?

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - greil - 21.08.2007

Hello Ole,

i can't answer you exactly, because i buyed the charger many months ago helped by a big Car-Part Trader in my region.

I think it cost about 450 €, but as i have said already without any guarantie.

the number i didn't know without a look at the charger, i will search it this evening.

Bye Michl

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - Helmut-Schmitz - 21.08.2007

Hallo Greil

ja, bei Turbos ist die Kolbenbodenkühlung serienmäßig, auch in den PKW-Modellen.
Man kann die Spritzdüsen aber nachrüsten, da der Ölhauptkanal normal dort nur mit Stopfen verschlossen ist.
Der Turbo hat auch einen anderen Kopf, wobei hier hauptsächlich die Gaskanäle einen andere Form haben um einen anderen Drall zu erreichen. Im Zusammenspiel mit den anderen Kolben das Turbos ergibt sich eine günstigere Verbrennung. Du wirst mit dem Sauger nicht die gleiche Leistung erhalten bzw mehr Sprit dafür verbrauchen.

@ Ole
do you know the VIN from the truck the egine is. Maybe I can figure out the type.

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - oleness - 21.08.2007

Good afternoon!

I will have a look for the VIN number later.

A view of the oil cooler from the OM364A when it still was in the 711D, a view of the broken OM314 engine, and a good look at the OM364A engine while running in the trac:
First video on youtube

A test drive of the trac with the new engine. I drive on a small farm road between us and our neighbours.
A small power demonstration near the end...
The throttle pedal is a bit worn out, and this causes a bit rough driving on bumpy roads...
Second video on youtube

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - greil - 22.08.2007

Thanks Ole,

I have watched your videos already in the afternoon.
I see, the OM 364 fits really good, little things like Ölmessstab and so on we can adapt yourself.
Very important is the fact, that the engine itself fits to the trac.

What do you think, how many gears higher can you drive a mountain than with the old engine before?

How much oil have your old engine consumed the last time?


Greets Michl

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - oleness - 22.08.2007

We kept the trucks "Ölmessstab" because it is too narrow between the fuel pump and the engine, we don't have the tools needed...

Yes the engine fits the trac with no problem. But as you see on the right hand side of the engine, the brake tube from the brake sylinder got bent when we lowered the cabin , so the head of the engine, and parts like fuel filter and intake/exhaust manifoild is built somewhat different than the original engine. It fits, but only just. Be careful when fitting the new engine, and it is a good idea to be more than one man working...

The trac pulls in 8th on every asfalt roads here in sogndal. The old engine also did this, but only at top speed, and no load. If I had to reduce speed, it was almost impossible to get up speed again. Now I can almost go down to idle with no load, and it pulls right away. And before, we had to use the split (zwischengange) often to accelerate, but now it is almost not used at all...

The old engine consumed about 1liter per running hour when driving on roads (40km/h).

I think the new engine also consumes a lot less fuel than the old one. Even if it has a lot more power and better torque. Strange...

Tonight I have been driving the trac for about 6 hours wrapping balls(silage(?)?)(not sure what you call them). And it has performed as intended.

There is a small exhaust leak, but only noticeable when driving downhill brakeing on the gears. Will seal it some day...

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - greil - 23.08.2007

Thanks very much for your detailed answer, Ole!

It is funny that nobody in Germany knows so much about the change from a 314 to a 364 as you in Norway

In my 800 now it is almost the same as yours with the old engine. but my trac has the whole forest equipment to so it is much heavier then yours.
The power of my tracs is satisfying, but more power and a 364 engine are better.

My tracs consumes about 1 liter oil before i put in Ventilschaftdichtungen from the 366. Now it consumes only about 1/4l when it runs a whole week every day 8 hours. Thats ok.

But im desperate to do the change to 364 engine.

Does your 364 consume oil?



Greets Michl

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - oleness - 23.08.2007

We have not noticed anything other than the turbo at cold starts. There has not been any noticeable decrease in oil level the last two weeks at least. We have not used it so much either yet.

The problem with changing engines, is that MB won't support this, they want you to buy a rebuilt engine from them that is identical to the original. This is what we were told here in norway anyway... They said that they were not allowed to say anything about a change like this. And still the man said that if we managed to swap the engine, the 364 is a lot better on all counts. (oil consumption, fuel consumption, power and durability).

We did not know anything before we started , but learned a lot during the work.

I found a site on the internet where they sold engine parts, and there I found that the shortblock is the same for the 314 and the 364, but the cylinder head, intake exhaust and so on is different on the two engines. The largest difference is the cyl. head. The head on the 364 is only half the weight of the 314.

When I found this info, we decided to give it a try, and it worked like a charm!

I also have some pictures from the work, but I am not sure how to put them in the gallery...

I guess the torque of the engine is the first thing you will notice after changing to the 364.

If you want more power, you could change to the 366LLK . Like the one SNOWMAN has in his 1000. But I can not guarantee the transmission will like it as much as you will...

We have wondered equipping the trac with an LLK, but I think 140hp will be a bit too much for the old transmission. And we normally don't drive around with so much heavy loads... 115hp will be enough for us.

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - greil - 23.08.2007

Hello Ole,

now problem. Send the pictures to my e-mail account.

I will put it into our site, so that all users can watch it.


Please mail to: da_holzfuchs@web.de


Yes, 100 % my opinion. An OM 364 is really enough for the 800.

My 1000 has already the OM 366 with a turbo charger adapted a little bit after buying in 1989.

Greets Michl

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Hello Ole second time,

i found a interesting site for a turbo charger input on an OM 364:

OM 364 Turbolader - Nachrüstung

Im mot sure, how much this set costs in Euro.

I think, its a brasilian site.If I change the written price of this site into Euro, the set costs about 1010 Euro.


Wenn das jemand sicher umrechnen kann bzw. weiß, um welche Währung es sich bei R$ handelt, bitte melden.

Ich kann nur raten.


Greets Michl

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - wolli - 24.08.2007

Hello,

you are right Michl. Its Brasilian Real.

Currency Calculator:
http://www.inbrasilien.de/Brasil_Services/Brasil_Services/Wechselkurs-Real-Euro/

Wolfgang

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RE: 78 800 OM314 -> OM364? - boerner - 26.08.2007

hi kann das für mich mal einer auf deutsch sagen?Mein Englisch ist leider nicht so gut.
Ich habe einen kompletten OM364 ohne Turbo und möchte den ganzen Motor in meinen 800er Bj. 78 einbauen.

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